Question about A-Life

General talk about Lost Alpha dream project

Moderators: jwknaggs, CruxMDQ, Nemo

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby floatbewa » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:20 am

dezodor wrote:
floatbewa wrote:the ai in lost alpha is based off 2215 (right?)


no


2232.

to expand on what soap was saying the ai should be able to recognize when its being hurt and move away from the area. if others are getting hurt/killed in an area then alife should avoid that place until the danger is gone. hopefully this will alleviate the getting killed in fires/ducks in a row up to an anomaly/try to loot a corpse and die one after the other/exact same open area all their friends perished in stupidity

vanilla ai would get stuck forever because they all acted the same and happened to have the same goal (like find assailant then all get stuck trying to get through a door) so best to have them quit if something doesn't work; even cooler if the alife could better organize tasks among itself (you two flank, you nade, i'll go check it out, ill check for anomalies, everyone retreat! etc).

I think what i have in mind is a player that is afraid to face the ai head on and instead sneaks/bribes/ambushes or runs because the ai can't be cheated and they work together to beat the players ass.
floatbewa
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:15 am

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby Soap » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:02 pm

KHM, i told, in 2232 build AI is BEST in COMBAT (not in assessment of level of danger) - in SoC combat AI is cutted. And if you know only about high movement humans NPCs speed in that build, then you don't know abything about combat AI in that build. I'm glad i found some info about enhached AI in LA, now NPCs' IQ is high and NPCs are not stupid targets :) - according to an old interview...
If NPCs will be able to recognise dangerous places it will be nice BUT it will be too difficult to CPU and game engine kinda "stalker walker script" will have one more parameter to check, before go somewhere, (danger class for example) and few danger classes for every place on level, and to count class of danger (from 0 to 3 for example) game will need to take up it's database and find out when somebody died on this place, when, why, how many others :rolleyes: ... i am not talking about bugs those will happend during counting that info. Avoiding anom zones is enought for "stalker walker script" :)
I want to see all creatures in LA very sly - it's sucks when 90% of enemies attacking you when facing you (except moments when you did not found enemy and he attacked you first). But, looks like i should not worry about LA's AI and all fights will be very interesting :rolleyes:
Soap
Newbie
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby floatbewa » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:15 pm

oh no doubt the ai will be good as is! I just feel that a simply exectuted avoidance script would solve like 60% of the stupid behaviors we've seen in all the other stalker mods. by "danger is gone" what I had in mind was a time release to when stalkers could go back into that area. if a certain node(s) were flagged because of death and then someone else died in the same spot again the timer would reset and increase
floatbewa
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:15 am

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby Soap » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:28 pm

It's just easier too make NPCs react on "fresh corpse" :) Engine is counting time of "freshness" of corpse, else how will work "body remove time" config?
It's sucks when NPCs would not react to dead guy, i think NPCs will need to have few reaction to "fresh corpse".
For example - 3 military are staying on their post, one of those is dying and other 2 react on exactly DEATH in first and in second (if death was not visible) on his corpse. Those 2 guys can choose 2 things to do: became more angry and try to find/kill the killer or "OMG HE IS DEAD!" and run away from place to maybe ask help? or find safe place to drink some vodka coz nothing in X-RAY could not be buried...
But it originally may cause many bugs (too difficult scheme, don't you think?). In LA will be only 200 or 300 stalkers - most enemies will be mutants, so we can move humans' AI to second place and "think back" to mutants.
P.S.: And why blind dogs have 90 degrees Field of View if those are blind? xD Kazak was right - 360 degrees FOV and +scenting ability is necessary for blind dogs!
Soap
Newbie
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby ScramUK » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:17 am

If the player wouldn't know the 'freshness' of a corpse, why should an AI?

I mean, you walk into new areas and find the odd corpse lying around, and you wouldn't be able to tell if it was fresh or not. There would be indicators for a player to deduce. Had it been looted? Were there gunshots comming from this location prior to seeing the corpse? Are there dogs eating it? But looking at a corpse, you wouldn't know if it died 30 seconds, or 2 hours ago. Why should the NPC's know?

Death is a common part of life in the zone. It wouldn't be uncommon to be totally indifferent to the sight of a dead body.
ScramUK
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:41 pm

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby floatbewa » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:26 am

react to fresh corpses is easy, timers are easy, zones are easy... dynamic anomaly avoidance was done very long ago, and this is essentially no different. In fact, every component for this has already been done before and its just a matter of scripting it when LA comes out. I made this MSPaint example but it won't upload

come to think of it IDK what LA has or doesn't have AI wise because there haven't been any new videos in forever
floatbewa
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:15 am

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby Soap » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:01 pm

I wrote about technical details "how to make NPC avoid bad place" or react on death - one of the ways (easiest one) is exactly "fresh corpse" system. For example - 5 military guys are patrolling house's perimeter, i've killed one of those and other 4 did not heard or seen somthing "abnormal", then one (or few) military guys finds corpse - what should they do then? floatbewa "Oh, maybe it's not fresh xD No danger in here and we don't know where our friend get his bullet from :rolleyes: "
Then NPC should react on any corpses, right? Crossfire: 5 bandits vs. 5 stalkers, one stalker is behind corner, getting bullet in his head and dies, another stalker walk around deadly corner and see body "OMG! I need to make my morale = 0 and run away in panic to another corner and get another bullet in my head!" xD Or one stalker is walking in place with some deadly anomalies, and founds very old corpse, but "no matter is it fresh or not, i will run away in panic instead doing normal things and die in that anomaly - just next to that dead guy"
Sorry i'm trolling here a bit, but NPCs' logics are different of our, so lets just use easy ways, kinda "all genius things are simple" :)
What am i flooding about? The best way is just make NPC react to corpse like on "sound of danger" - like react NPCs when hear "bad sounds" - you know what am i talking about :D
P.S.: NPC should react to fresh corpse only first time, else NPC will react on same corpse in future again and again.
Soap
Newbie
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby unclevinnie » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:20 pm

I wonder, If it's possible to make battle mechanics extremely tough, and the battles - extremely severe?
The problem is, that even or the hardest (master) level, it is still not a big problem to fight 3-5-8 enemies.

This is not a matter of just making the enemies' damage level twice higher. THEY ARE STILL VERY STUPID.
Normally - you can't stand against 3-5 jerks, armed with shotguns or assault rifles (and no EXO will help you!).

The enemies start running and shooting. That looks really idiotic. Normally - in case of being attacked - they should immediately hide behind some good shelters or covers, and try to shoot you from their covers, not hanging around the territory (and then - next time you will think 8 times, before running inside the enemies camp and starting shooting everyone as an insane hero).

The STALKER world is so much beloved by us - because we see a real, absolutely natural world, sceneries, buildings - everything looks 100% real, except the battle mechanics!

Is it somehow possible to improve NPC's battle tactics? Who knows?
unclevinnie
Newbie
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:37 pm
Location: Russia, Moscow

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby basist » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:32 pm

Yes, and second step would make battle tactics differ from one faction to another - Military and Mercenaries acting smart (like covering each other, making ambushes etc.), Duty being something similar, bandits acting as plain robbers or run in packs like animals etc. :lol:

I mean, I strongly support the idea and I vote with my both hands, but it will hardly be implemented at this point of development. Sorry, at this point of story testing...
User avatar
basist
dez0wave tester
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Kryvyi Rih, Ukraine

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby Soap » Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:56 pm

Basist, sounds good about improving NPCs' battle tactics - it will be nice to make them fighting like enemies in CoD MW/MW2 games: hiding in covers, shooting across them... WTF? We saw it in CS xD Well, in CS those were acting not so good. I think it's not too difficult to change battle schemes priorities to make NPCs acting more carefuly instead doing their "scheme 1" - Бежать прямо на врага - Run exactly on enemy :)
Here is another simple and funny solution by Kazak for diffirent difficuty levels based on accuracy configs
It's better to add accuracy to NPCs' parameters (2X), and to don't make game too difficult for beginners, change "hit_probability" config in actor.ltx "novice" section - make it 2 times lower, then when smb will play on "novice" level he will not find NPCs' improved accuracy, but on another difficuty level NPCs will have MUCH more accuracy.
P.S.: You just can't change "hit_probability" in "master" section from 1.0 to 2.0 xD In my way will still 1.0, but NPCs accuracy will be 2 times higher, so it's kinda 2.0 for "master". With hit_probability = 0.05 on "novice" it will equal to "0.1" in Vanilla (if NPCs are 2 times more accurate)

That way is interesting o_O
Soap
Newbie
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby basist » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:14 pm

I don't argue and I do support it and it would be great in many ways to be done - via accuracy varying between difficulty levels, via tactics varying between factions etc. All I am saying is this would be somewhat late to be added into the game.

I just want this game SOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!))))
User avatar
basist
dez0wave tester
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Kryvyi Rih, Ukraine

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby floatbewa » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:18 pm

Soap wrote:I wrote about technical details "how to make NPC avoid bad place" or react on death - one of the ways (easiest one) is exactly "fresh corpse" system. For example - 5 military guys are patrolling house's perimeter, i've killed one of those and other 4 did not heard or seen somthing "abnormal", then one (or few) military guys finds corpse - what should they do then? floatbewa "Oh, maybe it's not fresh xD No danger in here and we don't know where our friend get his bullet from :rolleyes: "
Then NPC should react on any corpses, right? Crossfire: 5 bandits vs. 5 stalkers, one stalker is behind corner, getting bullet in his head and dies, another stalker walk around deadly corner and see body "OMG! I need to make my morale = 0 and run away in panic to another corner and get another bullet in my head!" xD Or one stalker is walking in place with some deadly anomalies, and founds very old corpse, but "no matter is it fresh or not, i will run away in panic instead doing normal things and die in that anomaly - just next to that dead guy"
Sorry i'm trolling here a bit, but NPCs' logics are different of our, so lets just use easy ways, kinda "all genius things are simple" :)
What am i flooding about? The best way is just make NPC react to corpse like on "sound of danger" - like react NPCs when hear "bad sounds" - you know what am i talking about :D
P.S.: NPC should react to fresh corpse only first time, else NPC will react on same corpse in future again and again.



yes all great things are simple. THIS IS SIMPLE. and exactly a part what LA will need eventually. I don't know why you are so hostile towards it. maybe if you stop putting words in my mouth ("trolling") you'll see that your hypothetical situations have nothing to do with what I said. what, you dont think additional parameters could be added to this script to control AI behavior? That appropriate reaction to fresh corpse is now out of the question and the game is going to loose 30fps and be riddled with bugs lol? i mean just look at how red75 & redux did their shit -> and then see that the LA team has 10x the skill needed to do this simply and correctly
floatbewa
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:15 am

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby Soap » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:54 pm

No, script to react on fresh corpse will not cause "minus 30 FPS" - i know some mods with watcher_act.script (NPCs are grabing loot from corpses or just loot around) - it's not making engine stuck or smth. like that :)
So, it's better to just include a bit more code in "loot graber" script - first time when see corpse and if that corpse is not "friend" (in relation) then sneak around and try to find source of danger (bacame more neat). If body is TOO fresh and/or it's friend's corpse then activate battle scheme like REAL danger is close - and battle scheme should work until timeout or when source of danger will be found and deactivated if it's not anomaly or another "unsweepable" thing. After timeout or neutralisating source of danger just grab loot from corpse - it's going be more realistic. Players (intelligent and smart players) react same to corpses - how many times you've seen "OMG SOME DEAD GUYS and LOOT ON THEM!" and get killed/badly wounded in Stalker game? xD I remember, i saw REAL field of artifacts - i was not noob, for that time everything in game was known to me - that was just new level in new mod... I run in field and died in anomaly OFC :rolleyes:
So npc's should react properly to any loot before grabbing it (to corpses like i wrote up there) - when you founds mobile phone somewhere on street you look around before picking it up :)
Soap
Newbie
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby floatbewa » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:56 am

i didn't say fresh corpse script would minus 30fps, if you go back and look I was referencing something else. I would ask how you'd intend for them to neutralize the source of danger if they all die in one spot by sniper but this is all a moot discussion anyways its not like anything we say here is going to influence the outcome of the game so why even bother talking about it? if only gannebamm would pull a lazarus and come over to LA...
floatbewa
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:15 am

Re: Question about A-Life

Postby Soap » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:24 pm

Oh, i've played one nice mod called Freeplay Start 1.21 - there is an option in scripts - don't erase loot from NPCs after death and fill another one according to death_items_X_ltx files those consist info about loot on dead stalkers on different levels, different fractions, different difficuty levels :)
Well, it's nice if after NPC's death all his loot will be saved. I remember i've tryed kinda "business" in SoC - sell to random stalker all my loot, then kill stalker with my loot and get it back - did not worked OFC xD
Well, if NPCs in LA will collect some loot and artifacts it's necessary to make all their loot uneraseble after NPC's death - it's nice to chase stalker from a long distance with sniper rifle, watch how stalker is collecting some stuff and before stalker will get to camp kill em and grab his loot :D I did same in Freeplay Start - sometimes you may found 4 rifles and some medkits or artifacts or another loot on one dead guy just because he is "unstufferasable collector" :rolleyes:
In FS 1.21 config's "that" line is looking like "dm_keep_items = true" - enabled - all stuff stalker collected during his life will stay on his body :rolleyes: - i thing there should be script to use this function, but
"DM" talking it's probably option of multiplay and it will work in SP if you will just enter "magic" line in any script "dm_keep_items = true" - can't try it since have no SoC installed.
P.S.: only that one feauture made that mod few times more atmospheric O_O - try it!
P.P.S.: If "dm_keep_items = true" will not work - try to find smth. useful in attachment (death_manager.script)
Soap
Newbie
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:54 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Lost Alpha

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests

cron